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ge96 2 hours ago [-]
It's funny it's like those horror movies where people are trying to run away from this hive mind that's converting people. Then you see the creature latch on and control the person, their eyes go blank and stare off into space, now everything's fine.
I feel that now ha, I was so against it... now I've tasted it, had it reverse engineer a bluetooth stack... I see the power. I still don't like how I didn't really do anything other than drive it... but yeah. I need to stay in the job for the high pay but still feel the same about loss of joy.
al_borland 1 days ago [-]
I’m a Luddite when it comes to this stuff as well. I use it, but mostly just in Ask mode. The agentic stuff I do not like at all. It’s not perfect, and that means I have to troubleshoot and fix it anyway, so I would just assume do it myself so I properly understand what’s going on and can speak to it and be accountable for it. Lucky for me, my management talks about AI a lot, but they’re not over my shoulder hitting my knuckles with a ruler if I write actual code.
I’m not ready to throw in the towel yet. I want to see what things look like on the other side of the crash, when people get more realistic about using the things as tools instead of replacements, and get more realistic about their limitations. I’ve seen articles where a reporter with no stated experience created a dashboard for a few different things. While she admitted she wanted to throw her laptop in the ocean, she seemed to gloss over much of the hardship and didn’t mention how long it took to get something working. She also didn’t post a link, so there was no way to gauge how functional it was, beyond a couple screenshots.
My suspicion is that once the hype wears off, maybe anyone can code, but most people won’t want to. Then we’ll have the question of how professional developers best work. WYSIWYG web page editors used to be all the rage… anyone can make a website… but look at what we have now, professional are back to code and people not looking to write code are using very structured web-based platforms.
I’m with you on saving up money to get out, even if it’s just as an insurance policy. That said, I don’t think the collapse of the profession is inevitable just yet.
skyberrys 1 days ago [-]
Smart move to wait for the other side of the crash.
tughvn 9 hours ago [-]
AI Luddism?
It's not about hating the AI. It's about pushing back against our value being stripped away. Never thought We'd actually relate to the industrial workers this way.
andrei_says_ 8 hours ago [-]
Also the replacement of craftsmanship with mass produced lower quality output possible for workers with less training and partial understanding to produce.
Processes are more efficient, machines are faster, workers are easily replaceable. The quality and complexity of the product is limited by these requirements.
lepuski 1 days ago [-]
I'll coin a word for it: slopression.
Anyway, I'm a hobby coder and, unlike you, I've really enjoyed AI-assisted development. I was never a strong developer, so coding always took me a long time, and my interest in projects faded quickly that forced me to relearn them from scratch after long breaks. With AI, I can actually finish projects, and my code quality has improved. GPT is a better developer than I am. Example: the first time I had it analyze a personal project, it found over 50 vulnerabilities.
I enjoy learning and understanding how code works, but since AI has largely automated typing code I've since then shifted my focus to higher level topics like software architecture and systems engineering. I am reading the book "designing data intensive applications" right now.
ge96 1 days ago [-]
Yeah that's cool to hear in my case I'm forced to use it or get fired kind of thing.
bruce511 21 hours ago [-]
>> If I want to keep my job I need to use it.
So use it. I've been programming for 45 years, and I've found it to be a really useful tool.
I'm still writing code, still doing all the fun stuff, but I'm moving along MUCH faster than before. Mostly because when I get stuck I ask the AI questions. About the code, about the API I'm talking to and so on. In the past I remember spending days finding really obscure bugs, or reading soooo much material to try and figure out that "in this case call A before B, but in that case call A before C.".
To me, it's made programming (the creative) part more fun, while removing the unfun stuff (like bug fixing.)
I'm using "chat" more than agents though - The AI doesn't edit my code directly.
My company doesn't really care how we use it, just as long as we use it to make ourselves faster. "Ignoring" it out of some nostalgia for the past is not helpful from an employer perspective.
I certainly don't miss the pre-internet days (when you sought out programming books, and coded with a reference manual in one hand) or the even the google days where trying to do the right search lead you to some answer you could kinda interpret.
ge96 10 hours ago [-]
Yeah I use AI from Google search then I type I'm a sample piece of code.
The vibe coding where you have the side panel say copilot integrated into vs code and android...
Idk it's like ego I guess. Anytime somebody presents some app I'm like "wow you made that? Crazy" then it's like "no AI made it" and I'm like oh...
I mean I'm gonna do it since I'm broke and can't quit right now but I am gonna leave eventually. Find another way to make money.
It's not about just making money it's hopefully passion/joy of doing it. I have coworkers gloating like "I only work 10 hours a week since AI codes fo me" which is fine but I also think it's an ends to a means thing. No passion... which again is fine personal choice but not my choice for me.
bruce511 5 hours ago [-]
Yry and separate your sense of self worth from your job. You are not defined by your job.
A job is primarily a way of adding value - you sell your time and get paid.
If your job offers you more than just money that's great. But if you find your satisfaction elsewhere that's better. Jobs can come and go, nothing is guaranteed.
Of course you want to do your job well. Of course you want to be the best version of yourself. But ultimately you are selling your time to your employer, it belongs to them not you.
Personally I love my job. But if it ended tomorrow I'd be OK. My job is part of who I am, but I am more than just my job. I would morn it like a dead relative. But I will exist after my job is done.
ge96 4 hours ago [-]
The only reason I'm concerned with the job ending is I don't have savings just poor life decisions
It's crazy though what co-pilot is doing in Android Studio, it's going through hardware stuff that's beyond what I can do and I'm just typing in words.
I'm getting the picture, the car still needs a driver.
Yeah I need money so I'll focus on that/do well to keep the job. I can do passion on my own time.
Oh that's funny, kinda recent too, I try to listen to their podcast, the main guy's speaking can't seem to keep up with his brain
jmaw 1 days ago [-]
The terms are Zoomer, Bloomer, Gloomer or Doomer.
Personally I'm a bit of an AI Gloomer because I do think it's effectively inevitable, and putting people out of work is not a good thing. People out of work eventually tend to do desperate things. Not a doomer because I don't think it's going to literally end the world.
ge96 1 days ago [-]
From my perspective it's not about losing the job, it's that I don't use my brain anymore, I just write words... sure you need some architecture but I don't feel as engaged anymore, like I'm the one shaping the wood vs. a 3D printer making it kind of thing. I was thinking of analogies like driving through a track vs. just teleporting to the end of it... it seems inevitable, companies are about shipping features. That's why yeah from my side I think I will be getting out of it/do it for fun.
nicbou 16 hours ago [-]
That was not my experience. I tell it roughly what I would tell a subordinate developer to do, then make changes to suit my taste. Every line is accounted for, but I spend less time on tedious things like remembering how to parse yaml with python. Same quality, faster.
I am self employed and coding is not my main job though. No one is forcing my hand.
The flip side... if I don't care about something I'll just vibe code it
The app doesn't do this... (AI makes changes) Run again
It's good for POCs in unknown tech territory
I just don't feel good about it
It is funny when you run out of tokens
ge96 6 hours ago [-]
Yeah I'm dealing with that now where I made this app that's heavy on bluetooth and I don't understand that right now so when I run out of tokens I'm f'd.
benrmatthews 1 days ago [-]
MeloncholAI
benrmatthews 1 days ago [-]
DisenfranchAIsed
gcheong 1 days ago [-]
AIpathy
AnimalMuppet 1 days ago [-]
Seems to me the issue isn't so much the "AI adoption", it's the "forced". Forced to use a tool even when you don't think it's the best option, even when you think it's going to produce sub-optimal outcomes.
We're being devalued. Our engineering judgment is being devalued. We're being driven toward a cliff by those who know less than we do but think they know more.
If I had to give it a name, I might say: marginalized.
paulcole 23 hours ago [-]
How would you feel for a secretary who refused to use a typewriter or an accountant who didn’t want to use a spreadsheet?
Times change. You’re just sad the times changed for you in a way you didn’t like.
ge96 10 hours ago [-]
Is it the same thing
paulcole 4 hours ago [-]
It is the same thing
ge96 3 hours ago [-]
I don't think so, an AI can think for you, a spreadsheet you manually fill in, sure there are calculators you could use, some summing function.
An LLM/agent could drive a spreadsheet
jotux 3 hours ago [-]
How would you feel about a machinist refusing to use CNC machines and only manually machining parts?
ge96 2 hours ago [-]
I think that becomes the same argument as high level to assembly
I feel that now ha, I was so against it... now I've tasted it, had it reverse engineer a bluetooth stack... I see the power. I still don't like how I didn't really do anything other than drive it... but yeah. I need to stay in the job for the high pay but still feel the same about loss of joy.
I’m not ready to throw in the towel yet. I want to see what things look like on the other side of the crash, when people get more realistic about using the things as tools instead of replacements, and get more realistic about their limitations. I’ve seen articles where a reporter with no stated experience created a dashboard for a few different things. While she admitted she wanted to throw her laptop in the ocean, she seemed to gloss over much of the hardship and didn’t mention how long it took to get something working. She also didn’t post a link, so there was no way to gauge how functional it was, beyond a couple screenshots.
My suspicion is that once the hype wears off, maybe anyone can code, but most people won’t want to. Then we’ll have the question of how professional developers best work. WYSIWYG web page editors used to be all the rage… anyone can make a website… but look at what we have now, professional are back to code and people not looking to write code are using very structured web-based platforms.
I’m with you on saving up money to get out, even if it’s just as an insurance policy. That said, I don’t think the collapse of the profession is inevitable just yet.
It's not about hating the AI. It's about pushing back against our value being stripped away. Never thought We'd actually relate to the industrial workers this way.
Processes are more efficient, machines are faster, workers are easily replaceable. The quality and complexity of the product is limited by these requirements.
Anyway, I'm a hobby coder and, unlike you, I've really enjoyed AI-assisted development. I was never a strong developer, so coding always took me a long time, and my interest in projects faded quickly that forced me to relearn them from scratch after long breaks. With AI, I can actually finish projects, and my code quality has improved. GPT is a better developer than I am. Example: the first time I had it analyze a personal project, it found over 50 vulnerabilities.
I enjoy learning and understanding how code works, but since AI has largely automated typing code I've since then shifted my focus to higher level topics like software architecture and systems engineering. I am reading the book "designing data intensive applications" right now.
So use it. I've been programming for 45 years, and I've found it to be a really useful tool.
I'm still writing code, still doing all the fun stuff, but I'm moving along MUCH faster than before. Mostly because when I get stuck I ask the AI questions. About the code, about the API I'm talking to and so on. In the past I remember spending days finding really obscure bugs, or reading soooo much material to try and figure out that "in this case call A before B, but in that case call A before C.".
To me, it's made programming (the creative) part more fun, while removing the unfun stuff (like bug fixing.)
I'm using "chat" more than agents though - The AI doesn't edit my code directly.
My company doesn't really care how we use it, just as long as we use it to make ourselves faster. "Ignoring" it out of some nostalgia for the past is not helpful from an employer perspective.
I certainly don't miss the pre-internet days (when you sought out programming books, and coded with a reference manual in one hand) or the even the google days where trying to do the right search lead you to some answer you could kinda interpret.
The vibe coding where you have the side panel say copilot integrated into vs code and android...
Idk it's like ego I guess. Anytime somebody presents some app I'm like "wow you made that? Crazy" then it's like "no AI made it" and I'm like oh...
I mean I'm gonna do it since I'm broke and can't quit right now but I am gonna leave eventually. Find another way to make money.
It's not about just making money it's hopefully passion/joy of doing it. I have coworkers gloating like "I only work 10 hours a week since AI codes fo me" which is fine but I also think it's an ends to a means thing. No passion... which again is fine personal choice but not my choice for me.
A job is primarily a way of adding value - you sell your time and get paid.
If your job offers you more than just money that's great. But if you find your satisfaction elsewhere that's better. Jobs can come and go, nothing is guaranteed.
Of course you want to do your job well. Of course you want to be the best version of yourself. But ultimately you are selling your time to your employer, it belongs to them not you.
Personally I love my job. But if it ended tomorrow I'd be OK. My job is part of who I am, but I am more than just my job. I would morn it like a dead relative. But I will exist after my job is done.
It's crazy though what co-pilot is doing in Android Studio, it's going through hardware stuff that's beyond what I can do and I'm just typing in words.
I'm getting the picture, the car still needs a driver.
Yeah I need money so I'll focus on that/do well to keep the job. I can do passion on my own time.
Personally I'm a bit of an AI Gloomer because I do think it's effectively inevitable, and putting people out of work is not a good thing. People out of work eventually tend to do desperate things. Not a doomer because I don't think it's going to literally end the world.
I am self employed and coding is not my main job though. No one is forcing my hand.
The app doesn't do this... (AI makes changes) Run again
It's good for POCs in unknown tech territory
I just don't feel good about it
It is funny when you run out of tokens
We're being devalued. Our engineering judgment is being devalued. We're being driven toward a cliff by those who know less than we do but think they know more.
If I had to give it a name, I might say: marginalized.
Times change. You’re just sad the times changed for you in a way you didn’t like.
An LLM/agent could drive a spreadsheet